February 28th, 2012 
AstroNerdBoy ラストエグザイル-銀翼のファム-/Last Exile: Ginyoku no Fam episode 17
Last Exile: Fam, the Silver Wing – 17
Although the 3rd Fleet has joined the Allied forces, there is much distrust, considering the destruction the 3rd Fleet did to Glacies. Dio, who’s been recuperating from his injuries, makes a break from the hospital ward in Boreas, when he stumbles into Sārā’s chambers, where the young empress has been unwilling to eat. Since Dio is hungry, Sārā escorts him back, where they run into Fam and company. Back in his bed, Fam and Gisey explain the hardships that Millia is going through with everyone considering Liliana a traitor witch, and the hardships Sārā is going through, since she blames herself for the fighting.
Fam, Gisey, and other Sky Pirates go on patrol when Fam and Gisey spot the 1st Fleet and its vanguard fleet. General Sadri allows Fam to report her findings, and the Allied forces scramble to meet the challenge. Although the Glacies pilots haven’t forgotten, nor forgiven Ōrang and his fleet, they race ahead of the nervous 3rd Fleet captains and target 1st Fleet Vanship carriers, Magiritas and Imperium. With those two ships sunk, the Allies have air superiority, but General Sadri knows there is mistrust among the allies and so has a message sent that gives orders to the 3rd Fleet to begin their pincer attack.
The Glacies fighters begin to take the bait and fly back to the 3rd Fleet, causing some 3rd Fleet captains to open fire in panic. Ōrang orders that Admirari (Jagannath/Juggernaut) and the remaining 3rd Fleet ships not return fire after Dian’s flight engages them. Dian is determined to sink Admirari when Fam’s Vespa gets in the way. Dian and company return for refuel and rearming, allowing Dian to take out some frustration on Fam before returning to the fight, this time, ordering her remaining fighters to only go after 1st Fleet ships. However, the fight seems hopeless until the Silvius appears, showing why its nickname is The Reaper, as it destroys many 1st Fleet ships, allowing Millia and Ōrang to retreat.
Back at Boreas, Teddy has a tearful reunion with Millia, while inside the base, Dio takes Alvis and Fam for a long drop down to Sārā’s residence. Meanwhile, General Sadri has bombs planted on one of Boreas’ rock cliffs, setting them off, and giving 1st Fleet the ability to fly in close to destroy the Allies. As this happens, Fam wants Sārā to stop the fighting, so Sārā issues an imperial decree. Millia delivers a copy to Vasant to end the fighting. Fam and Gisey fly out to General Sadri’s ship. Dian, knowing what they carry, tries to shoot them down, but Fam and Gisey manage to lose her. Delivering Sārā’s message, General Sadri orders a cease fire. Sadri looks at the celebrating Fam, and is reminded of a girl named Laha.
Man, I seriously cringed when the Glacies forces so quickly took the bait that Sadri laid for them. I know that there was distrust by them and the 3rd Fleet, but for a message to be sent that’s easily read by all is too obvious a fake, in my opinion. On the other hand, it is not unrealistic for there to be so much fear and distrust to cause some to go off like they did, but I guess I expected too much of Dian as a military leader.
I was glad to see the Silvius return. We got to see why it has the nickname, “The Reaper,” eh? *lol* It was good to see Teddy and Millia reunited too.
I know the official, FUNimation spelling of the nickname of the Admirari is “Jagannath,” but it SOUNDS like the Japanese are saying “Juggernaut,” and indeed, the term “juggernaut” comes from the god Jagannath of the Hindu religion. Indeed, if the nickname for the Silvius is “The Reaper,” then it seems to me that the nickname for the Admirari would be “Juggernaut” — a term rather than a proper name. Oh well.
I like how Sārā truly became Empress when she issued her decree and had both Vasant and Sadri obey. If I am right about Luscinia trying to remove military forces, this will hamper his plans. Question is, what happens now? Does Sārā forgive Vasant?
I wonder why Luscinia fears the Anatoray-Disith Exile. It has been suggested by some that this Exile might be en route from Prester. Further, it has also been suggested by some that Empress Sophia might be on this Exile with more of the Anatoray-Disith fleet. I think these are reasonable notions since the canon, bridge manga only shows Silvius and Urbanus being loaded onto Exile.
Finally, with Dio befriending Sārā, I can’t help but think a bad flag has been set. We’ll see.
So, another good episode.
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With all due respect, English isn’t the official language of the world quite yet. If the Japanese decided to base some of the names on Indian languages, then it’s a no-brainer that the names should be romanized accordingly. That’s why it’s Jagannath (not Janannath) and not Juggernaut. Also, if you bothered to check the Japanese spelling, it’s jagannāto and not jagānōto, so your nitpicking completely misses the mark no matter what you personally hear.
Where is the official Japanese spelling for me to check? ^_^
You don’t believe me? Does the official glossary http://www.lastexile-fam.com/glossary.html work for you? Or see the img tag alt text of the Admirari page linked from http://www.lastexile-fam.com/mecha.html.
Even just reading lastexile.wikia.com you can make the logical leap that if there are other ships with obviously Indian names like Senapati and Raktabīja/Raktavija, and people with equally obvious names like Vasant, Dinesh, Vimal and Shiva, Jagannath makes perfect sense. Why is it that only American fans always need to have this explained to them?
Well, as I learned in Japanese class, sometimes, the Romaji spelling and the “official” English-letter spelling don’t match up at all. Heck, the Fairy Tail manga is FULL of that, with the official, English spelling of names provided by the manga-ka often not matching what the katakana spelling would indicate.
Anyway, the point you are avoiding at all costs was that I was saying that kuggernaut, which comes from Jagannath, would seemingly be a better fit for a NICKNAME of a ship, much as “The Reaper” is the NICKNAME of the Silvius. ^_^ That’s my opinion, and I’m sticking with it.
It’s you who’s avoiding the obvious: people with Indian NAMES who NAME their ships with Indian NAMES would also NICKNAME them with Indian NAMES. The Prester people didn’t give it the nickname so why should it be in English like with the Silvius? It’s for you as an American that Juggernaut seems better because you think everything should be English-first, but it doesn’t make sense within the show and that shouldn’t change just to cater to you. That would be disrespectful to the Japanese creators who’ve worked hard to create the rich world of Last Exile with all the different cultures and languages.
Your accusation that I’m avoiding your point is ridiculous, because at first you asked me to show you the spelling and then when I did that you suddenly started dismissing it. Who’s doing the avoiding here? So what if the Japanese use strange spellings sometimes. Unless you have evidence that your version is what they intended despite it being a mismatch, I have provided evidence to support my point while you only made nitpicking claims based on your incorrect hearing that didn’t pan out. The only reason you hear it as Juggernaut is because that’s the word you’re familiar with. If you were from India, you’d hear it as Jagannath for the same reason. The Japanese pronunciation doesn’t match either of them exactly, so who hears what is completely useless as an argument when we know the spelling.
I looked at the Fairy Tail names in Wikipedia and didn’t see any big mismatches there, unless you mean they don’t match your personal preferences. Katakana spelling is necessarily imprecise and especially with made up fantasy names there are many variants that can fit. Juggernaut might even be an acceptable spelling if there wasn’t a clear pattern of Indian names in the show that don’t show any indication of being misspelled from how the Japanese would ordinarily spell them in katakana. I repeat, these are existing names with existing spellings, not something thrown together to sound cool like many of the Fairy Tail names. You have no factual basis for your nitpicking and even less basis for accusing me of avoiding your point. I didn’t avoid your point at all, on the contrary I showed that it wasn’t a valid point in this context and you have nothing to counter that so instead you throw a pointless accusation at me.
This comment has been removed by the author.
(Man, I wish these comments had an “edit” button, but alas, they don’t.)
Original post (with cut off sentence fixed):
I’m not sure why my simple opinion has you so fired up, but then that might explain why Google has flagged every one of your comments. Regardless…
>…people with Indian NAMES who NAME their ships with Indian NAMES would also NICKNAME them with Indian NAMES
Really? I see. So, then people with Roman NAMES who NAME their ships with Roman NAMES would nickname their ships with Roman NAMES, right?
Oh wait, they didn’t. Ooops. “Silvius,” a Roman name, was given the English nickname, “The Reaper,” apparently by Indian-naming peoples who live in what used to be Turkey, and who use a lot of Muslim cultural influences, including Muslim names. ^_~
Further to the point, “Admirari” is NOT an Indian name, but a Roman one. Ōrang is not an Indian name, but a Malaysian one. So, that kind of kills your theory on Indian-named people traveling on Indian-named ships giving said ships Indian-named nicknames. ^_~
In all seriousness though, (1) you are being way too sensitive about my opinion and (2) you are assuming things that I never said. The opinion I gave stated quite clearly the reasons I thought it should be “Juggernaut.” At the same time, by saying, “Oh well” at the end of my opinion, I was indicating that if “Jagannath” is the official spelling, then sobeit. I accepted it and moved on.
I’ll ask some of the folks at FUNimation about the term though. I suspect that it is just a translator coming up with what they feel is the best possible English naming convention based on the script (and there’s nothing wrong with that).
I have no idea why Google has flagged my comments but I know weird shit happens in Blogger every now and then. You have no reason to insinuate anything about me like you just did. I don’t have to give a reason before I express my opinion but if you must have it it’s because it’s so rare to see Indian influences used properly in anime but for some reason you have a problem with that and insist on some bastardized English version instead.
You never once acknowledged that what I’ve been saying makes at least as much sense as your opinion, instead you’ve been using selective nitpicking to evade my points. If you’re even going to ask FUNimation about this, you clearly have a lot more invested in winning this argument than I do. The Silvius was not given the English nickname “The Reaper” in the show, it’s called Shinigami in Japanese. The main point of the sentence you latched onto was not the kind of Indian exclusivity you think you’ve so clevery caught, but to show there’s a pattern of Indian names in the show that Jagannath fits much better than your big idea. Of course there aren’t only Chaos people there, that’s too obvious to even mention. You’re contradicting yourself by bringing up every other non-English element, because that only only makes it less likely that the ship would be nicknamed in English. Persians and Malays aren’t English-speakers. There are ZERO flagships in Ades fleet named in English but there are two with OFFICAL INDIAN NAMES, not just nicknames. If that doesn’t clue you in, it’s pointless to talk to you. You don’t even seem to know that the language of Rome is called Latin and that India has well over 10 crore Muslims and a lot of Muslim influence especially in the North. By all means stay in your ridiculous world where America is everything.
>If you’re even going to ask FUNimation about this, you clearly have a lot more invested in winning this argument than I do.
Not really. Since this is your hot-button issue, I decided I’d just check to satisfy my own curiosity.
Anyway, this is a pointless, boring debate. I gave an opinion, in which I also accepted the official naming by FUNimation. You didn’t like my opinion. Fine. You turn this into some racist thing where none existed. Great. You are welcome to that thinking. Whatever floats your boat. You “win.” ^_^
Don’t take a differing opinion so personally, Anon. ANB may hate India because of his job situation, but that doesn’t mean he’s a racist like you seem to be suggesting. Both of you have a point, but ultimately whatever Funi has picked is the official version and that’s that.
I don’t hate India, per se, but I do get very frustrated with the support people I have to deal with there. That’s because these “smarter than smart of the smarts” have zero clue about what they are doing, other than they have a piece of paper or flow chart that says, “do this.” They don’t know why they are doing what they are doing, and normally don’t hang around long enough to learn that (if ever).
What is this? I never said anything about racism, why are you accusing me? All I meant is Americans always act like you own the world but you don’t bother to learn about anything outside your own country unless your troops are there. Even when the Japanese take an Indian word directly and not through English you insist it should be the English version because you can’t imagine English not being primary. I even said if not for the context we have here, Juggernaut might be acceptable, but you didn’t acknowledge any of the points I made. You kept dodging and making sarcastic remarks. If you blanket reject my perfectly valid points because your job got outsourced to India like the last comment says then what the hell? I’m sorry about your situation but give me a break, I’m not responsible for your problems and you can’t hold it against people from another country if your own companies move jobs there.
Sounded to us like you were accusing me of being a racist. My whole, entire point was wondering WHERE FUNimation got the name Jagannath when it sounded like Juggernaut. Heck, even my old Japanese teacher said it sounded like “Juggernaut” and she’s a Japanese native. The folks I spoke to at FUNimation aren’t even sure if Jagannath or Juggernaut will be in the final subtitle version released on DVD (or BD). It all depends.
Unbelievable. Since you’re belaboring this ridiculous point, let me be clear one more time. I never accused you of racism and you have absolutely no basis to say I did. What I accused you of was being an ignorant American who thinks America and English must always come first. But the sarcastic rubbish you threw at Indian workers above makes me wonder if you’re ever frustated with your fellow Americans and how is it different from being frustrated with someone from India? Why is it an Indian problem in the one case and racially non-specific problem in the other? Besides it was YOUR AMERICAN COMPANIES who moved their jobs to India in the first place. I’m ONLY asking these questions because YOU brought up this topic to evade my points. If you can’t acknowledge even one of my valid points then at least don’t blame nonsense on me.
I don’t care what you, I, or anyone else hears, I know how the word is written and what that means. If I said “Jagannath” to you you’d also think it sounds like Juggernaut. The whole reason for English even having the word Juggernaut is because that’s how English-speakers HEARD Jagannath. It’s not rocket science and it’s rubbish to build a point on this. If you still have to ask where FUNimation got the name Jagannath when it’s absolutely obvious the show has lots of Indian names, you’re hopeless. I’m glad the translator at FUNimation got that simple point right away. It can’t be helped if they change it to Juggernaut later to cater to people like you.
What if they change it to cater to the Japanese?